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Hugh
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Please don't say Lennon–McCartney were geniuses
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Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:58 am
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Sugarman
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For Crying Out Loud Smile
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Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:36 pm
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Hugh
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Good read and insights. The juke-box did a lot of damage to live music.


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Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:31 pm
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Imani
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I still hear the occasional thing that gets my attention but the chances are that these artists will not get even a tiny fraction of the promotion of a One Direction or anything of that ilk.

While much new music doesn't move or grab me, I respect that young musicians still put bands together, go out on the road and write their own songs. For one thing it's much more of a challenge economically to do that and creatively, it's become the norm to do the opposite. That's the kind of musical environment they're in.

As I've mentioned earlier, it's too easy in other ways. There are apps where you can just feed in a recording and it gives you every single chord and melody. Want to learn a song? Just go to Google and Youtube, someone's bound to have done a tutorial. Need a beat? Just sample that drummer's intro from that obscure bit of vinyl. Not that I'm anti tech at all but rehearsing and listening, developing your ears and imagination without the 'aid' of technology or tutorials is too much for the instant gratification mindset we're in.


Last edited by Imani on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:33 am
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Hugh
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Looking for short cuts to fame isn't too creative or imaginative.
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Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:10 pm
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Hugh
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Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:29 am
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Imani
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Hugh wrote:
Looking for short cuts to fame isn't too creative or imaginative.


And more do it now that the short cut is the norm.
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Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:34 pm
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Hugh
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And a sentimental shlock jock to boot; makes me vomit.


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Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:24 am
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Hugh
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Charlie Rouse and Sonny Clark, by Pannonica de Koenigswarter

Koenigswarter, the muse and patron of the American jazz world was an enthusiastic amateur photographer.

She also collected wishes. Over the course of a decade, Koenigswarter asked three hundred musicians what their three wishes in life were, jotting them all down in a notebook.

The three wishes of Charlie Rouse:
1. ‘To be an excellent musician.’
2. ‘To own a jazz club and promote very good jazz.’
3. ‘That America would recognize it’s a true art.’

The three wishes of Sonny Clark:
1. ‘Money.’
2. ‘All the bitches in the world.’
3. ‘All the Steinways.’
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Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:32 am
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Imani
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(This 2009 article by Paul Morley hits the nail on the head)

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE PROTEST SONG?

The idea of the protest song that meant something, that presented inarguable truth, had a seductive, provocative glamour that lasted from Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger’s 50s all the way through the 60s, just about through the 70s, right up until the time punk took on the idea of message and resistance, and then sort of petered out in the 80s when ‘me’ took over from ‘we.’

By the 90s, pop was essentially about raising the bank balance rather than raising awareness. The 00s, really just a downloaded, iTuned/auto tuned, celebrity-saturated spill-over from those decades, may have referred to the clothing of the 60s, the punk and revolt of the 70s, the indignant balladeering of the 80s, but rejected the idea that the attitude and revolt was an integral reason the music sounded the way it did.

But it is perhaps not the protest song that has disappeared, rather the audience for the protest song – a community of like-minded spirits that eagerly respond to brilliantly written songs that reflect potential change and new social circumstances.

No one wants to hear songs in support of the underdogs, the dispossessed, the alienated – they want songs about sex, success, excess, good times. Listeners don’t want to be lectured about matters that might make their lives a little darker and require a certain sort of individual responsibility.

Hip hop generated the last gasp of the kind of protest music that seemed it might make a difference. In the late 80s Public Enemy invented political hip hop, as something that emerged out of the battling, outsider background of Mohammed Ali, Gil Scott Heron and the Black Panthers. The music bounced off this turmoil in a way that was both disconcerting and accessible.

But the way that the political nature of hip hop has been transformed inside a decade into an escapist materialist frenzy is a metaphor for how rock and pop in general has travelled from having a social conscience. Hip hop in the hands of Public Enemy threatened to overhaul American culture; within a few years their brand of fierce resistance seemed old fashioned. The subversive energy of the likes of Public Enemy has been replaced by the clown antics of the gangsta rappers whose rebellion is ultimately as dangerous as Adam Sandler’s.

It might be the sense of naivety that inspired the protest song, and the romantic belief that music can change the world, has gone. We’re far too knowing now, too ironic, too complicit with the world of reality TV and instant celebrity, to believe that a song, a feeling, can change the world. Perhaps the Live Aid experience was about as far as we wanted politics in rock to go – a big fun entertainment show that makes a load of money, and then we can forget all about the problem. Everyone’s quite comfortable, why should they complain, and oddly enough it’s now pop music that is creating the comfort.
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Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:00 am
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Hugh
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Yes, but many of the most talented had expensive and destructive habits.
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Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:58 am
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Hugh
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This is more recent


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Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:39 am
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Huggy
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This technological information age has changed many things - music included. It may never be how it once was. There may not be hidden away subcultures like their used to be, because everything is now almost instantaneously fed. With that, the new thing becomes old much sooner.

The music industry also has drastically changed because most everyone is freely listening to and downloading music.

And with the right equipment almost anyone can autotune their voice, make a song without a band, and post a video on Youtube.
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Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:04 pm
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Sugarman
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Huggy wrote:
This technological information age has changed many things - music included. It may never be how it once was. There may not be hidden away subcultures like their used to be, because everything is now almost instantaneously fed. With that, the new thing becomes old much sooner.

The music industry also has drastically changed because most everyone is freely listening to and downloading music.

And with the right equipment almost anyone can autotune their voice, make a song without a band, and post a video on Youtube.





Jerry Dammers wrote the original version of this song in 1980 for the "More Specials" album. The record introduced a wider range of styles and in this particular track, lounge. Terry Hall's gloomy lyrical approach to the downsides of love influenced the overall feel of this version, where as the original take is distinctively happy Smile

More interesting stuff here Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrtuTxxV73E&index=1&list=UUwMuA85wEmWNY8InndvTZHg



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Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:09 pm
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Imani
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Harry wrote:
Yeah, but aside from Neoliberalism, commodification, commercialization, merchandization, playlistization and sentimentalization.
Why are there no great new bands anymore?


"What have you got?"

Many different things - I'll throw in these, don't know if they're causes or effects:

Fewer grassroots venues - the kind that allowed upcoming artists to hone their craft and for people outside of the pop mainstream to gig fairly regularly.

Technology made the industry throw songwriting out with the bathwater. Not that I want to go back to just guitar-based combos but isn't it interesting how as soon as the sampler was invented, what did most of its users do? They started sampling old records! That continues to this day. Odd.


Last edited by Imani on Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:11 pm
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done donald
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Jerry Dammers wrote the original version of this song in 1980 for the "More Specials" album. The record introduced a wider range of styles and in this particular track, lounge. Terry Hall's gloomy lyrical approach to the downsides of love influenced the overall feel of this version, where as the original take is distinctively happy Smile

More interesting stuff here Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrtuTxxV73E&index=1&list=UUwMuA85wEmWNY8InndvTZHg


[/quote]

Sugarman - thanks for osting this - very interesting and has now left me in the 'depths of YouTube' as a guest vocalist once said. It's not an improvement on the original, but interesting nonetheless.

This one I find intriguing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0m8YEkV-40&list=UUwMuA85wEmWNY8InndvTZHg&index=11
Jim
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Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:13 pm
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marigold
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I was going to put "The Black Keys" - then after disappearing down the YouTube rabbit hole as Jim says "Depths YouTube"

I thought I can't watch this singer - he looks like he used to be dead Sad and I have to seriously cherry pick their songs....
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Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:19 pm
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Imani
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Reiterating a few points, probably, but just to add to the discussion:

It's really difficult to find standout artists when there's so much music out there.

Mainstream radio playlists have always been quite controlled since the rise of Radio 1 but the music you heard was more diverse. Today it's very samey sounding; ironically so, as we're supposed to be about 'celebrating diversity' but moving quickly along...

As far back as 1984 Miles Davis pointed out that because there were so many records being released, there was less chance of musicians finding their own distinctive sound i.e. there's more available to copy.

That brings to mind the 1999 Bowie/Paxman interview, where Bowie says the vocabulary of pop music was too well-known for it to be revolutionary.

The internet and communication technology is now the most dominant influence on popular culture, not music. Music is only a segment of it, whereas in the days of a couple of tv channels and radio stations, it meant more.

Going back to the Bowie interview, I think the section from 6:00 to 11:00 addresses many of the themes on this thread. It's quite telling that this is from two decades ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiK7s_0tGsg
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Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:33 pm
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jstrudge
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It's been quite a while since I posted on here but I saw this thread and have a suggestion. If you are looking g for a band with the same message as the Specials, an amazing live act with so much passion I suggest Bristol punks Idles try their Glastonbury set on I player. first time in years I've felt really connected to a new band, even if you don't like the music I feel the subject matter is really similar an upto date band to carry on the message of unity and tolerance
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Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:42 pm
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Trojan
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jstrudge wrote:
It's been quite a while since I posted on here but I saw this thread and have a suggestion. If you are looking g for a band with the same message as the Specials, an amazing live act with so much passion I suggest Bristol punks Idles try their Glastonbury set on I player. first time in years I've felt really connected to a new band, even if you don't like the music I feel the subject matter is really similar an upto date band to carry on the message of unity and tolerance


The Idles certainly are one of the better bands to make their presence felt.

For me the cream of the crop are the Sleaford Mods. Two middle aged blokes and laptop are now carrying the real spirit of punk.
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Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:55 am
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