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Imani
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Post subject: 'The Madness of Crowds?' Interview with Douglas Murray Reply with quote

Julia Hartley-Brewer meets author, Douglas Murray in the second episode of her new series, Inside the News. The two discuss his new book, The Madness Of Crowds: Gender, Race and Identity.

Douglas Murray examines the twenty-first century's most divisive issues: sexuality, gender, technology and race. He reveals the astonishing new culture wars playing out in our workplaces, universities, schools and homes in the names of social justice, identity politics and 'intersectionality'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTviaHRguVU

I saw the interview earlier this week and thought it was an honest but balanced discussion.

It's not acknowledged enough how much things have improved in the above areas since, say, the 1970s and 1980s when I was a youth.

No-one would say that things are perfect but I've felt over the past decade that certain developments are sending things backwards. Race and gender issues in particular are being used as political footballs that are creating division and tensions that were either being resolved, or that wasn't even there in the first place. This is 2019 and things aren't always as 'black and white' as before.

As long as any kind of violence isn't being advocated, and as long as there's no gratuitous insulting/lack of respect, I'd like a society where people are able to discuss these topics without feeling they have to fall in line with the prevailing views out of fear, without the fear of being called 'racist', 'homophobic' etc etc (insert your pet '-ism'). This only serves to close down the communication necessary to help people understand these issues and get along.
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:04 pm
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bombscare79
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never heard the word balanced and Julia Hartley Brewer in the same sentence, interesting but im never going to listen to anything she is involved in. ........many other things have changed since the 1970's and 80's e.g. global warming has made homelessness under a Tory government just that little bit more bearable in the middle of winter and there is very little left to privatise.
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:19 pm
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Imani
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bombscare79 wrote:
never heard the word balanced and Julia Hartley Brewer in the same sentence, interesting but im never going to listen to anything she is involved in. ........many other things have changed since the 1970's and 80's e.g. global warming has made homelessness under a Tory government just that little bit more bearable in the middle of winter and there is very little left to privatise.


I actually knew nothing about either speaker besides a review of the author's book I saw in the Guardian, that just denounced him as a right-wing apologist. I decided to listen for myself and didn't see that at all.

Regardless of whether I agreed with Murray or Brewer or not, I don't see how it's possible to form a view on someone or a subject without my having looked into the content of their message first. That would be as prejudiced and bigoted as the people I'd be accusing of being prejudice and bigoted.

If it's wrong to believe there's no need to constantly play the victim, or look for the latest bigot (sometimes an imaginary one), or to use that victim status to gain social and sometimes economic advantage, and that it's actually not empowering to encourage someone to do so, then file me also under the tag marked 'Imbalanced' with pleasure. Because that was what I got from the discussion. So much for Guardian reviews.

As for the list of wrongs you listed, I could provide one just as lengthy for 'the opposition', to somehow 'prove' that things haven't moved forward. But I've never voted, I don't intend to, I don't affiliate myself with either wing, so there's no need. Also, the discussion I posted isn't about 'The Tories'.
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:48 pm
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bombscare79
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I cant comment on Douglas Murray as i know absolutely nothing. Ive heard JHB many times and i now switch off immediately. The rest of your response beggars belief and i wont comment any further or read the post as i dont want to be offensive.
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:03 pm
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Trojan
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Ah.. Julia Hartley-Brewer. The 'journalist' who thought using a photograph of the devastation caused by the Omagh Bomb to attack Jeremy Corbyn would be seen as 'satire'.

She also had an invite withdrawn to address the Royal College of GPs because of her racist views.

" GP Survival founder Dr Alan Woodall set up a petition deeming Ms Hartley-Brewer’s inclusion at the RCGP event as an ‘insult to the thousands of international doctors who have come to work as GPs in the NHS’.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/all-news/rcgp-withdraws-invitation-for-julia-hartley-brewer-to-speak-at-conference/20038784.article
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:50 pm
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Imani
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This isn't a 'Tory vs Labour' issue. Neither party is even mentioned during the interview. Feel free to discuss those parties ON ANOTHER THREAD, it's of no relevance to this topic. Especially if you've decided you don't want to hear anything said that is in disagreement with your views - shock horror.

In recent years I've seen the word 'racist' thrown around so indiscriminately, usually for innocuous reasons that actually makes a mockery of genuine racist behaviour. Disappointingly for some, there are black journalists saying much the same, and readers like myself who are in agreement with the points advanced by Brewer and Murray in the interview. This makes the label 'racist' a bit more tenuous, if not completely redundant.

So you'll have to excuse me for being in the habit of checking things out for myself, rather than letting some journalist or social media troll's weak accusations of 'racism' or any other '-ism' decide who to like or dislike.

Because it seems to me that if there's lots of people 'no-platforming' and censoring the free speech of anyone whose views they happen to disagree with, this is a slippery slope. It's through communication that things are worked out, not by this pathetic 'no-platforming' which only deepens the fault lines. Not only that, it's an approach that ends up nurturing the kind of extremism that it's supposed to be getting rid of. If people haven't worked that one out, then take a look at history and perhaps you'll think again.

I'll leave it here.
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Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:58 pm
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wally
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Please don't leave it there Imani!!

it's been a breath of fresh air to read your posts. I've been feeling the very same for the last few years and can absolutely recommend reading and listening to anything and everything Douglas Murray has to say (I have his book here beside me). He's always honest, articulate and unafraid of the politically correct lynch mob. The left has become hysterical and intolerant of any contrary opinion, we're too busy polishing our halos to bother to listen to someone who may once have uttered something daft or innapropriate. If we are honestly to have meaningful discussion about important issues, dismissing people out of hand for something they once said or did or is petulant and vacuous. What someone has to say about the situation at hand is the important thing.

You should check out Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris too, all are prepared to honestly discuss the taboo and controversial subjects that we find ourselves hiding from these days.
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Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:57 pm
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Trojan
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It still does not take away from the fact that Julia Hartley Brewer is monumental arsehole.
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:02 pm
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wally
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Sounds like you've got the hots for her....
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:24 pm
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Trojan
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wally wrote:
Sounds like you've got the hots for her....


I'm fed up not hard up.....
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Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:27 pm
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bombscare79
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JHB has been linked to far right politics and Douglas Murray is a neo conservative.
As regards this -
“If it's wrong to believe there's no need to constantly play the victim, or look for the latest bigot (sometimes an imaginary one), or to use that victim status to gain social and sometimes economic advantage, and that it's actually not empowering to encourage someone to do so, then file me also under the tag marked 'Imbalanced' with pleasure. Because that was what I got from the discussion. So much for Guardian reviews.”
This is a typical ultra right wing view point i.e. there’s not really such a thing as racism or bigotry its just people being over sensitive or just whinging. This is usually the view of people who have never been a victim and generally don’t want those who could claim racism, sexism or bigotry to gain social or economic advantage. “This makes the label 'racist' a bit more tenuous, if not completely redundant”...................................................... Fuck me- seriously- what gives you or anyone else the right to decide if someone has been a victim and racist is redundant- priceless.
“As for the list of wrongs you listed, I could provide one just as lengthy for 'the opposition', to somehow 'prove' that things haven't moved forward. But I've never voted, I don't intend to, I don't affiliate myself with either wing, so there's no need. Also, the discussion I posted isn't about 'The Tories'.”..........”This isn't a 'Tory vs Labour' issue” .........Again this is a typical ultra right wing response i.e. don’t comment on the content of the message just apportion blame to the opposition. This is absolutely a Tory VS labour issue. Why would you post such ultra right wing views on a Specials Fansite. Jesus

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PostPosted:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:44 pm
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wally
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Hi bombscare, could you explain to me the difference between someone with conservative views and "ultra right wing" views, and for that matter the difference between someone with liberal views and someone with "ultra left wing" views? Have you considered the possibilty that the prejudice lies with you?
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Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:16 am
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