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Gangster
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Post subject: The Story of Skinhead with Don Letts Reply with quote

Morning everybody....
Saw this in the TV guide over the weekend looks like a good view
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07yv0qj

Not sure if anybody has put this up yet, if they had SORRY!! Razz
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:53 am
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StevieB
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Agreed .... it looks a good watch Smile
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Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:21 pm
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kev
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I watched it and enjoyed it. It's funny because so much theory is put on to what was happening at the time as an analysis after when it was just 'happening'. I didn't really like the 'the Jamaicans were like us, we liked their style' parts as to me, that was an afterthought (did jamaicans have fred perrys and doc martens?) and the bit about 'paki' bashing was too real. I really think this is a retrospective afterthought. 'Paki' bashing cannot be excused in any way or form and I know from experience that a lot of Skinheads didn't really buy into the jamaican culture of their 'mates' other than 'well they're wogs and the music we like is made by wogs, so they must be alright if they dress cool'. People are people. I was there and lived through it. There is a lot of 'street cred' to be gained by a lot of people who despite loving the music were still racist yet now deny it. The press have a lot to answer for of course.
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Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:11 pm
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Trojan
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kev wrote:
I watched it and enjoyed it. It's funny because so much theory is put on to what was happening at the time as an analysis after when it was just 'happening'. I didn't really like the 'the Jamaicans were like us, we liked their style' parts as to me, that was an afterthought (did jamaicans have fred perrys and doc martens?) and the bit about 'paki' bashing was too real. I really think this is a retrospective afterthought. .


As was mention throughout the programme it skinhead was a mixture of black Jamaican culture white British working class culture. And each culture has something to add to it. No Jamaicans did not have Fred Perrys and Dr Martens. The Fred Perry's came from skinhead's big brother, mod. Early skinheads were also known as hard mods because of the striped down mod appearance. As for Dr Martens, very few people had them. Back then any type of working boot would do. As for the shortened trouser length, that was pure JA rude boy. It was a shame it would be exaggerated in future years to accommodate ridiculous 22 eyelet boots.

It's not really an afterthought to say that skinhead style was a mixture of the two cultures. It's there is plain sight for all to see.


Don Lett's didn't seem convinced about the Oi! music scene. And I am surprised that he didn't interview any of the band members. Stinky Turner (Cockney Rejects) or Micky Fitz (The Business) would both have made very good contributors and would have made it perfectly clear about what they thought of Right-wing politics.
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Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:13 pm
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kev
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No Jamaicans did not have Fred Perrys and Dr Martens. The Fred Perry's came from skinhead's big brother, mod. Early skinheads were also known as hard mods because of the striped down mod appearance. As for Dr Martens, very few people had them. Back then any type of working boot would do. As for the shortened trouser length, that was pure JA rude boy. It was a shame it would be exaggerated in future years to accommodate ridiculous 22 eyelet boots.

It's not really an afterthought to say that skinhead style was a mixture of the two cultures. It's there is plain sight for all to see.

I remember that any boots would do, thats what got me a bit confused about the (what is often seen as) 'Skinhead Fashion/Clothing'. So the Fred Perrys and Doc Martens and Levi's and crombies are an evolution and not really a reflection of what people first wore. That's what I thought, Skinheads didn't really have a 'style' aside from the haircut and then the rest soon followed and sort of stayed. As I was thinking, what I saw in the day didn't really seem the same as what I see today. Thanks for clarifying.
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Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:44 pm
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Sugarman
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2 Tone Smile


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Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:07 pm
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Imani
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I enjoyed it. It covered all aspects of the movement. Sometimes I've seen documentaries where people are at pains to say there was no racism, and others that focus purely on the latter-day racist element. This struck a balance, I think.

I was interested to see that they went to Shipley in Bradford to film those two guys. Back in 2011 I interviewed an original Jamaican skinhead who was part of the movement in Bradford. It was for a local radio documentary. I asked him the same question, and he also mentioned Shipley - listen from 23.22 to about 26.19 ...

https://soundcloud.com/twotonebradford
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PostPosted:
Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:41 pm
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Imani
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Imani wrote:
I enjoyed it. It covered all aspects of the movement. Sometimes I've seen documentaries where people are at pains to say there was no racism, and others that focus purely on the latter-day racist element. This struck a balance, I think.

I was interested to see that they went to Shipley in Bradford to film those two guys. Back in 2011 I interviewed an original Jamaican skinhead who was part of the movement in Bradford. It was for a local radio documentary. I asked him the same question, and he also mentioned Shipley - listen from 23.22 to about 26.19 ...



CORRECTION: The link is here.
https://soundcloud.com/2tonebradford/2-tone-bradford
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PostPosted:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:37 am
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Imani
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kev wrote:
I watched it and enjoyed it. It's funny because so much theory is put on to what was happening at the time as an analysis after when it was just 'happening'. I didn't really like the 'the Jamaicans were like us, we liked their style' parts as to me, that was an afterthought (did jamaicans have fred perrys and doc martens?) and the bit about 'paki' bashing was too real. I really think this is a retrospective afterthought. 'Paki' bashing cannot be excused in any way or form and I know from experience that a lot of Skinheads didn't really buy into the jamaican culture of their 'mates' other than 'well they're wogs and the music we like is made by wogs, so they must be alright if they dress cool'. People are people. I was there and lived through it. There is a lot of 'street cred' to be gained by a lot of people who despite loving the music were still racist yet now deny it. The press have a lot to answer for of course.


I've a feeling that whether or not there was racism within the movement depended upon which part of the country skinheads were found. In some cases, it may even have been which postcode area. For instance, on the in the interview clip I've just posted on a previous comment, the Jamaican guy who's speaking was from a part of Bradford called Newby Square, which was where many of the new Caribbean arrivals resided. it wasn't wholly black but predominantly. There were lots of black skinheads in Newby Square.

Shipley on the other hand was a more white working class part of Bradford, there wasn't many black people there. Perhaps this is why the NF targetted that area in particular.

Obviously it's not as straightforward as geography but I'm sure that would have played a part. Anyway, the clip is worth listening to, just to get another first-hand account.
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Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:47 am
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